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Re: "Smooth" VR6

Okay Eliot you wanted my response....  Well here it is and your not going 
to like it.

The VR6 Sucks, It's Torque curve is awful.  IT's NVH is Awful (Noise, 
Virbration, Harshness) It's V- angle is inefficient, ask the VW engineers 
they argree!  They admit that they only did it cause it was the only way 
to make a V-6 fit in the engine bay and their target was Mazda with it's 
2.0 V-6 (A MUCH better engine BTW).

>> I, for one, think pretty lowly of the VR6.  Everybody rants and raves - 
>> what the heck is the big whoppin' deal?!!!  
>> I drove a '95 Passat GLX and hardly heard 
>> anything 

I would have to agree on the lowley part, But I really can't fault VW for 
adding more sound insulation on the firewall.  The Block casting is so 
resonate in the VR6 that it gets painful and unacceptable above 4200rpm.

>ok, so because the passat is too heavy for the VR6, the VR6 is junk?
>did you try a passat VR6 with a broken in engine?

The VR6 is simply not up to the task in the Passat.  Hang on here for a 
min.  I ran the VW Passat B3 (New Body Style) Introduction last year.  I 
was paid by VW to show the dealers and focus groups how the Passat is 
superior to the competition.....  It's not.....  EVERY Excersise had to 
be rigged in one way or the other to mask the deffiencies of both the 
Passat and The VR6,  on our tour we had a Volvo 740, BMW 318, BMW 325, 
Camery, Maxima, etc. and everyday I got to compare them, and at the end 
of the tour the VR6 lost big.  When the Instructors went to dinner or had 
days off I ALWAYS Drove either the BMW 325 or the Maxima, You want to 
know why?  The engines are better, the BMW kicked the VR6's butt, It's 
smoother, quieter, and has more HP and Torque and to top it off it got 
better gas mileage!!

>as in 0 foot pounds?  :)

Not quite but close, I think it has only 130/lbs ft

>>  I was far more 
>> impressed with the BMW 318 (yes, read 1.8 litre 4 banger).  Jeez, how can 
>> you even compare the VR6 in the same sentence with the 2.5 Bimmer?!!

BTDT and the BMW Wins.........

>have you driven:
>1) corrado VR6


>2) golf VR6


>3) bmw 325i?


>and comparing the 318 to passat is totally dumb.  what kind of weight
>differences are we talking about here?  

0 lbs..................

>i drove all these cars that i talk about, and i express my opinions
>about them.  you don't have to agree with me at all, but at least
>drive the cars if you want to extrapolate your limited experience.

I am.............

>>But I'd have 
>> to say that the VR6 SUCKS in the Passat. 
>> I'm sure it's a good motor for the Corrado.  

Not even........

>now you're getting somewhere.  it sucks (according to you) in the
>Passat, you can only speculate that it will be ok for the corrado.
>why don't you go drive it and then decide if its the engine that sucks
>or if it's the body that's overweight.

It's the engine.  A good engine in a overweight chassis (Not Body) just 
feels underpowered......

>>But give me a 2.226 I5 for the Passat, the A4.  Heck, you 
>> (eliot, I think) talk about wanting the VR6 for any car under 3000lb.  
>> Get a clue - that's perfect territory for the ole I5. 
>the I5 is dead and buried.  live with it.  after 20 years of development
>it has reached it logical end.  

Tell that to, Honda, Volvo and Audi.........

>> You want 
>> character, torque, power - it's hard to outdo the I5 for all this AND 
>> character.  
>the I5 is easy outdone by most sixes.  it is not going to defy any
>laws of physics.  odd number of cylinders is never going to be as
>smooth as even.

I dunno with hyd engine mounts the I5 does pretty good.... The one thing 
that your not taking into account though is that the power potential of 
the Audi I5 is Outragious.....  400hp from 2.2L, that's 181hp/liter in a 
dailly driver no less, try that in that fragile thin walled VR6 and your 
going to get meltdown.  The VW engineers that I had at my and my crews 
disposal on the ride and drive told me that that the VR6 could go up 
MAYBE 15% in hp before the block would twist it's self to death.  The 
Audi 5 block on the other hand can can go in excess of 500hp before the 
brearings get taxed, the block on the other hand is sufficently stiff to 
handle that output.

Sorry but it's time to put this silly argument to bed.  The VR6 was a 
stopgap, VW well tell you this.  It's old tech.  VW loves to do things to 
see IF it's possible, The VR6 was BUT it's not pratical.  BTW It is a 
"Double Single Overhead Cam"  There is One cam Per Cylinder Head, making 
it a SOHC.

All of this information is from a Informed opinion, One that is Informed 
enough that auto makers Hire me to help them figure out how to present 
their cars to the public while minimizing it's drawbacks.  


Eric Fletcher

STEADI RIC@aol.com